Diane Downs- Part 3

The investigation reaches its breaking point in Part Three of our Diane Downs series.

After a shocking roadside shooting leaves three children gravely wounded, investigators begin to question whether the story told that night is the truth. As the evidence starts to accumulate, detectives work to piece together what really happened on Old Mohawk Road.

In this episode, the case against Diane Downs intensifies. Forensic evidence, witness statements, and troubling inconsistencies begin to reshape the investigation. At the same time, Diane takes her story to the media, captivating the public while detectives continue building their case behind the scenes.

But the most powerful testimony may come from someone who was there that night.

Part Three explores the investigation, courtroom drama, and the events that ultimately turned the Diane Downs case into one of the most infamous true crime trials in American history.

If you follow true crime podcasts, criminal psychology, courtroom drama, famous murder trials, and investigative storytelling, this final chapter reveals how one of the most disturbing cases of the 1980s unfolded.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to Storyteller, where I try to find the wildest story I can each week. And here's it all for the first time. I'm Courtney. And I'm Des. And do I have a story for you? And welcome back, Des. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. We are missing our lovely Teresa. She is dying of COVID- not really. That was an exaggeration. Uh, of a COVID flu hype, but she's not doing well. So think good thoughts for our girl. It's going around. Yeah. So she's getting her ass kicked. So um, yeah, like I said, I took her soup last week and it was we could have had her on, but it would have been like having a beautiful croaking frog as the co-host. Contagious. Croaking croak. Yeah, contagious too. So get better. We love you. We miss you. She listened to the podcast last week and she was, she commented. She said, fancy turkey pizzeria. It was like, well, I didn't I didn't see who commented it. And then when I went into the comment, I was like, oh, it's Teresa. I'm so proud of her. I know. And then I realized after we had a whole like fangirl session that I had said the wrong thing. And I was like, oh, fresh air is for dead people. Not open windows. Good advice that either way is good advice. Don't die. That's the only role we try to live by real hard in our house. Just don't die. Yeah, uh-huh, stay alive. So, anyways, we are back um with the wonderful, horrible, disgusting world of Dirty Diane with uh part three of our three-part series on Diane's fucking downs. Ugh. Hate her. And if part two made you angry, part three will be making you livid. She I don't there's no room left for that. Like she has like hit the height of pissing me off. Yeah. Diane sucks. I mean, just gonna be she's gonna suck even more. It's actually incredible when you're like, oh, I caught a clip of her saying something like justifying um, like, I wouldn't that's just dumb. That I would never do that. And I'm like, your entire life seems to be pretty dumb. Like, I'm sorry. For somebody who is a smarty parent. Right. Let's get into it. Um, just to recap, when we left you last week, Diane comes peeling into the ER on May 19th, 1983. Um, she's in Springfield, Oregon. She's screaming so much about my kids. In the backseat of the car are her bloody, lifeless, you know, the bodies of her three beautiful children. Um, frantic hospital staff work to save her children, as Diane just is nonchalantly hanging out in the waiting room, like doesn't give a shit. Yeah. Is her car dirty? Um, yeah. Um, she's complaining about the bud stains in her new car um while her kids are literally dying. She is like, oh my god, my new interior. So just like I said, things are gonna get even if that doesn't make you mad. Um, unfortunately, her middle daughter Cheryl does pass away. Christy, the oldest one, essentially dies. They bring her back to life. She does suffer a stroke, um, but she is alive at this point. And then the youngest, Danny, um, he is really hurt, but they think it's he might not be able to walk the rest of his life. So um, yeah, she right as we left off, she had finally like walked down to Diane also got shot in the arm. Um, pretty superficial. Very superficial to the garish wounds that her kids are suffering. So, um, but she couldn't drag her ass down the hallway to see her kids for like 24 hours or something like that. So she finally visits her kids in the hospital, and as she stands next to Christy, Christy's heart rate goes from normal to like 147. So 80, I think is normal to 147. And the police guards that are watching the kids, because thankfully they have that, are like, hmm, that's weird. That's super weird. She's re-traumatizing these kids left, right, and sideways. Yeah, so they're like, why is Christy so afraid of her mom? So that's where we left you. Um, so outside the hospital, investigators continued. Um, you know, the investigation continued. None of it made investigators feel better about Diane's involvement. They were like, Oh, nothing's really showing that she's, you know, not doing anything. Yeah. Um, when her car was processed, the forensic evidence also did not match her story. And there was no blood sputter on the driver's side of the car, which there should have been according to her story. Yeah. Right. Well, I mean where she was shot, the door was open. And he just leaned in to shoot the kid past her. Yes. Uh, yeah.

unknown 5:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

And was able to touch a child with the actual what I think Danny has contact wounds. Yeah. So which oh my god. Um, yeah, so the shaggy hair stranger, that's who she's come, you know, saying is doing all this. Um, there should have been some blood spatter. There should have been gunpowder residue in the driver's door or on the interior door panel. Again, things that should have been there with everything happening the way Diane said. Nothing's there. So the, you know, the forensics are not matching up. Um, then there's Diane's just whole story, your sightseeing at night with sleeping children. Right, yeah. Uh um, her vague description of a man who had shot her kids. Apparently, the shaggy haired stranger is something. If you read Anne's rule book on this, she's like, criminals for a long time have been blaming the shaggy haired stranger. She's like, when the shaggy hair stranger is finally found, the jail, you know, doors will open wide and all these innocent people will come out because there was the shaggy hair stranger that did so many things. Of all the things, like if I was getting injured, right. Um, or any kind of yeah, if there was a crime being perpetuated against me, yeah, I think the last thing I would notice is their hairstyle. Right. Like I would be like, they have dead shark eyes. Or you know what I mean? I'd be like, they're ugly as fuck. They were terrible. They really didn't know how to dress either. I mean, their fashion sets was terrible. It's a crime all the way around. You're killing me. Yeah, so exactly. But so she's got this vague description. Like, I feel like if you're going through that, again, I haven't been through one of these situations ever. Thank God. Hope to never be. But I would think if somebody's hurting my child, I'm going to have these almost like oh photo memories of the person who's doing it. You would have nightmares. Yeah. I don't think you would be able to get that vision out of your mind. Exactly. So you don't have a good description. Okay, bitch. Um, so I'm surprised she didn't pull a race card, to be perfectly honest. Actually, yeah, that's a very good point. She's such a terrible human being. I obviously, when you had sort of started that part of the story, I was like, where is she gonna go with this? Yeah, because I mean that's like what Casey Anthony did. She was like, Hispanic woman. Yeah, a lot of people do. So don't do that. Be a human, yeah, is a good one. So um, so and the fact that somebody actually wanted to steal her car, um, why wouldn't they have shot Diane, the adult, and the actual threat in that situation? Why would she have the superficial? Um, you know, what person is going to shoot three kids and then make off with the cars with their body in it? Like, was this guy gonna shoot these three kids, throw their body, like, take the time to be like, Diane, don't react. I'm gonna get the kids out that I shot. Like, not only that, like, okay, so there's an adult standing in the way of you obtaining this vehicle that you're trying to steal. Yes. An adult person. Um, you're gonna reach around them and and not remove them so that you can get in the vehicle and leave. Like exactly. Anything in the backseat would be totally second nature to any criminal out there. Absolutely. It isn't, you know, dangerous. Yeah. Have you seen on social media actually right now, a guy stole a car recently and the people, there was like at a gas station, they had left their baby in the backseat. And he brought the car back and took the carrier inside and was like, what the fuck is the matter with you? Oh, okay. And then left in the car again. Well, I guess we're gonna do crimes. I guess, yeah, at least bring it back to baby. So how shameful that you are getting dressed out by a criminal. Your parenting skills need work, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. So, anyways, yeah, that's just another point I always come back. Like, no one is going to believe the story that this guy's gonna shoot three kids and then drive off with them. Like, no, and they're not going to be focused on the adult. Like, shut the fuck up. So, Diane, fuck you. Um, your story doesn't make sense. No one was believing it, especially the police. Police ran through every scenario and always came back to one person, Diane. Yeah. Um, but why? At this point, none of the investigators can convince themselves that a mother would do this to her own children. At first, that was. Um, as they watched Diane more while she was in the hospital, um, they made Diane stay in the hospital for five days. And I honestly think it was just to watch her. Um, and they learned more about her life as you know this progressed and her obsession with the man who didn't want children. Things started to shift a bit for investigators. Um, as Diane's own behavior and other evidence started to mount, um, investigators had one just like teeny tiny problem. Um, they couldn't find the murder weapon, and that was a pretty big deal. I mean they couldn't, I mean, did they bring up to her already that this 22 rifle that was never mentioned in her report to them when they asked her about the guns? I don't think they've asked her about it yet. Um, yeah, but they couldn't find. So they're like, well, shit. Um, they if they could find the gun that had shot Christy Cheryl and Danny, they could match it to the casings they took from the children. Just in case anyone out there doesn't know this, guns have a barrel. Um, gun barrels have a unique like tool mark that leave marks on any bullet that passes through. Uh, the marks are almost the gun's fingerprint. Like you can, they're they're unique to each gun. Yeah. So that's how these, you know, so if they can find a shell casing or something from this gun that had been shot before and match it, it's just like having a fingerprint. So, but without the gun, they had nothing to match the casings to. So they're like, fuck. Um, but they could match it to another casing that was known to be fired from the gun if it matched the others, as I said. They have, you know, in their evidence from the shooting, two investigators had to send in on Arizona to question Nick, Nick and Bacher, her paramour, um, Steve, her ex-husband, and anyone else who knew Diane. Um, and it was during one of these interviews that they learned about Diane, about the time that Diane had shot through the floor bathroom in her mobile home to make Steve think she killed herself. So they're like, really? So with the 22 that she's not telling us about, she is shot. Okay. Yeah. So for two days, investigators crawled under her old mobile home in a scorching Arizona heat. It's well, yeah, I think it was August when they finally got down there. And also scorpions. Yes. These guys were like, huh catch me! Yeah, so they're dodging scorpions, they're worrying about rattlesnakes, like these guys were freaking out and stuff. So um, they were just worried about as they crawled on their bellies looking for a miracle, this you know, this casing, and they found it. Yay! These are good cops. Uh-huh. Sometimes that's not the case, but these ones sound more like, whatever. So the casing shot from the same gun they theorized Diane had shot her ch um children with was under the mobile home. Back in Oregon, the lab examined the bullet that had sat under the trailer for a year in the acidic dirt that had started to eat, eat, eaten away at the fingerprint the gun barrel had left on the bullet. So they were like, it's not great. But um, when they reported its findings, this bullet was most likely fired from the same gun that had been used to shoot the Downs children. But due to the erosion, they could not put like a hundred percent step on it. They were like, there's that small chance that it's not because of this erosion. And Fred Huge, the DA in charge of the case, he refused to arrest Diane unless they were 100%. So he was like, Nope, not I get it though. Yeah, because you can't leave room. No, that was especially in this case. Yeah. And you've got to get justice for these kids. So tensions were at high at the police department after Hughie's decision not to arrest Diane after this discovery. But even so, Diane was starting to get the sense that she had moved from um to the suspect category in the police's eyes. She was kind of getting that feeling. And her suspicions were confirmed one day while in the hospital visiting Danny. She was served with a grand jury subpoena and a notification that she had been scheduled for a lie detector test. She was like, Oh, okay. But they didn't even ask her. They were just like, get your butt there. Yes. And I think it was like the next day, kind of like Diane got a lawyer real quick. She was like, Bye, Danny. Sorry about your legs. And went and got a lawyer that day, um, who informed police at ASAP Rocky that Diane would not be doing the lie detector test. It's not any uh yeah, so um, and instead he scheduled her to take one by an independent company. Um, Diane took her independent polygraph and failed. Yeah. Um, but no one told the police department or the DA's office. Um that little tidbit that she knows now, it should be said here, kind of as you alluded to, polygraph tests are not exact science. Uh, in fact, in the US um federal courts and more than half of the state's courts, polygraph results are inadmissible evidence. So for good reason. Yeah, because I think I always think of it. Oh, yeah. You know, like I'm here's the thing fully 100% uh law-abiding citizen. Yeah, however, I don't know why. But my heartbeat immediately if I'm gonna be in trouble or if I think there's a possibility. I judging how I get uh I react, like if I'm getting pulled over for speeding, not that that's ever happened, but judging by how I react, my body reacts in that situation, I would be a fucking mess. I could be telling the stone cold truth and still fail one of those things. And they'd be like, this girl's going to jail. Yeah. Like I get some Zola. If you need a calm down, jeez. I have prescriptions. I don't exactly. So polygraphs are viewed more as an investigation tactic nowadays. So if someone agrees to one and they fail, it opens a new line of questioning for investigators because they show what areas the person was showing signs of deception. Yeah. In Diane's case, I'd really love to know what areas showed dis um, you know, deception, or if it was the whole fucking interview. Like I mean, here's what I want to know. I want to know how many times she went off script and they're like, okay, so did you shoot your children? And she'd just be like, I'm gonna love Nick and Bacher. He's my favorite person ever. Have you heard of Nick Nick and Bacher? He's right. He's such a good pulse worker. That's such a good point. You know, they're like if I hear one more fucking word. I know. I wonder. That would be interesting to hear. That would be, yeah, I'd love to get those results because yeah, but I digress. Um, Diane's new lawyer also sent a letter to the hospital saying essentially they were not allowed to do anything in the way of care for her severely injured children or let them talk to the police unless Diane okayed it. So, like, I get like not letting the police just come in and talk to these kids whatever. Okay, fine, that's your right. Not to let the hospital provide any care of their children is child abuse. I was gonna say, isn't that a reason that like somebody else can step in and be like, you are no longer capable of caring for these children? Oh my gosh, I can't even imagine. Uh-huh. Like the doctors in this hospital filed for custody of these children because they were so freaked out. Yeah, they were like, oh my God. Um I love all the real people. I know there are stories. There are good people in this story. Thank God. So um, yeah, so Diane, fuck you. Um, when this development was printed in the newspaper, Diane, who up until now had been a poor single mother who was going through the unthinkable to those in the community, had public opinion flip on her overnight. They were like, well, that's fucking weird. You know, like none of that makes sense. Yeah. Um, Diane visited her children in the hospital every day, but Christy and Danny still had a police detail watching them, and they would never leave the room while Diane was there or even let them talk to them in private. So again, good ones. So clap, clap, clap. Um, Diane was enraged by this. Like that for someone who likes to control everything. I bet it just rubbed her so wrong. Sentenced, yeah. So she threatened daily after this that she was going to take her children out of the hospital and that no one would be able to stop her. Again, at this point, Christy looks like an octopus with all of the tubes coming out of her. Like, Diane, what? So it's awful. With all her medical knowledge, right? She probably could do it better than that. She did so well. Diane can get pregnant. I think it's just like a couple of weeks, but she knows better than everybody else. So yeah, in early June, Diane had to have surgery to repair her broken arm from the gunshot. The wound that grazed her, I guess. When she awoke from being under for surgery, Diane learned that she had lost custody of her children. Yeah. God bless. God bless. So amazing. Fred Hughie had filed an emergency protective order after hearing from those doctors that were like, fuck, you know, this lady's gonna haul these kids out and finish the job, you know. Right. Um, he, you know, so he filed an emergency protective order after hearing about Diane's constant threats. Um, and because he couldn't risk her doing that, you know. Um, Diane out of the hospital from surgery was able to get a hearing about the state taking custody of her children. As she walked limped into the courthouse, what she had no reason to limp. There's no there was no reason to limp. Okay. She limps into the courthouse. Okay. Oh, she is! Yeah, she clung to her parents who flanked each side of her, her heart, her arm in a cast and a blue sling. And there to catch it all, what would was what was about to become Diane's next obsession? The media. Their cameras followed what seemed to be a frail, demure woman clad in a modest, ruffled dress, being falsely persecuted as a monster. Diane noticed the cameras finally and turned up the drama, limping even more, and flashed them a dazzling smile. So it was like, I love at first sight. She was like, Lord, oh my. So Diane, thankfully, did lose in court that day. Her children would remain under the care of the state, but she won the media. She was like, oh my god, the media was like, hey, bitch! So and they knew that she was going, yes. My next section is called Diane Can't Keep Her Mouth Shut. We have learned. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So investigators were working behind the scenes to get the ironclad evidence that DA Fred Hughie insisted they have before arresting her. Not having her children at home to abuse and attempt murder on, Diane had a buttload of free time on her hands. So use that free time to court her new love, the media. Um, Diane refused to talk to the police department anymore. She hated every single one of them. And now she now had a way to air her grievances against them. And the media was like, hell yeah, girl will come over for an interview. Like, because Diane loves us, she's the yapper. And oh my goodness. So it was great stuff. The media was like, hell yeah. So they were portraying her as like the a victim in this situation, or I think when you look back at these interviews, and uh there's been a couple documentaries that I've watched where the ladies who are interviewing her are like, Oh, I don't think the women interviewing her thought she was innocent. Okay. I think a lot of them were like, I'm just gonna let her talk because all she does is talk, and whatever she says, it's great for ratings. Yeah. So I don't I don't know that they were portraying her either way. Oh, they were just kind of letting it play out. Yes, and it was very, very interesting because Diane just doesn't shut up. Yeah, it's crazy. So um, Diane was undoubtedly in love with the cameras. All her life she had wanted to have a purpose, have someone to listen to her and adore her and listen to her constant yapping. And the media graciously obliged. They were like, hell yeah, girl. I'm here for you. But it started first just in Springfield, Oregon, but soon the whole Pacific Northwest and then the country was jonesing to get an interview with Diane. Like it went nationwide, it was a big deal. But Diane, Diane would just say the darnedest things and work that shovel that was digging her own grave every time she opened her fucking mouth. Here's Of my favorite quotes from Diane's interviews. If I had shot my own children, I would have done a good job of it. I wouldn't have waited till they uh I would have waited until they died and then cried crocodile tears before taking them to the hospital. Um, we always go sightseeing at night. That's just us. They can't change us. I'm gonna whip that out in the most inappropriate moment for the rest of my life. They can't change us. I know I'm being an asshole, but they can't change us. Did I bleed my bank out dry going to JJ Max? They can't change. I was like, change us, they took your kids away. Anywho, the mind controls the feet, and if I can love him, i.e. Danny, enough, I can make him walk again. Okay. All right. Anyway, so those just some fun things from her interviews. I am gonna try and stellar medical knowledge again. She had her own circusy clinics so she knows more than everyone. Um, even when she said weird things, overall the media portrayed her, I guess, as a poor dear thing that was going through hell. Some picked up on the fact that she had small resemblances to Princess Diana, because this is 1983, and that's when she's like getting ready to get married, or they got married in '82. Anyways, a nickname that the media who distrusted Diane parlayed into a new version, Princess Di. D-I-E, which is iconic, incredible work. I mean, yeah, yes, but also don't besmirch, Lady Diane. I know, how dare you, our angel. R I P. Um, I love her. I people are like, She's crazy. I know. People are like, she was kind of um unhinged. And I'm like, no, no. Have you seen the yeah? Oh, yeah. There's a reason. Yeah, uh huh. No, yeah. She was just a child, essentially, that was put on a world. It's fun. We'll have a whole different episode. I have a whole episode planned on like the conspiracies surrounding Diane Princess Diana's death. And I was like, no one might enjoy this but me, but uh, we're gonna talk about it. I'll enjoy it. Okay, go enjoy it all day. Yes. Uh so police were still working behind the scenes, but they had very few breaks during this time. Diane returned to mail carrying, you know, she didn't have a lot going on, so she, you know, went back to work. They let her? Yes. Quite position. Yeah, crazy work. Yeah. Christy and Diane, Danny healed. Like being away from their mother probably was a huge thing. You know, Christy 8 was living with a foster family who did adore her, and she worked with a psychologist who could see the little girl's fear and love whenever she talked about her mother. That is such a hard thing. Yeah. Danny, only three, was still in the hospital, and he was confined to a wheelchair. He assured her, um, the psychologist assured her um as they worked together, Christy did not have to tell him who shot her until she was good and ready. Like this guy was like, Hey, girl, more good people. Yes, so many supportive people, these kids. It's incredible. Um, and even if that meant she never told him, he was like, That's your thing. I'm here to help you heal only when you're ready. And if you're never ready, no one's mad at you. You know, everyone involved wanted to prosecute Diane for what she did, but Christy being whole again was more important. And I think Fred Hughie really led that. He was like, no, we're not re-traumatizing these kids all over again. Yep. Um, every day, um, every time they ended a session, Christy would write the name of who shot her on a piece of paper and place it in an envelope. Um I read two different things in one part of this. She was putting an envelope and then there was like a fireplace in whoever's office, and she would get to burn it or something. Um, but I think that either um it's been misreported um and this wasn't happening, he was just keeping them, or it transitioned to him keeping them and she wasn't burning them anymore. But either way, there was like this little ritual she was doing with the name of whoever killed her, and it, you know, gained her trust because no one was looking and everything. So, and nobody did. Nobody, even when she left the office, nobody was checking those envelopes. So that would be hard though. Mine was yes, it would be in there. It'd be like getting out the steamer, you know doing the glue of the envelope. Like I just thought, no, I fucking knew it.

unknown 26:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

They would continue this ritual until Chrissy was ready to say who shot her if she ever did. Um, police finally got a viable eyewitness tip for someone who had also been driving down old Mohawk Road the night of the shooting. So this was a big deal. Since flying into the ER, Diane had told everyone and anyone and their mother that um after the shooting, she had raced to the hospital to get her kids the care they needed. According to the hospital personnel, she arrived outside the ER that fateful night at roughly 10 48 p.m. screaming, somebody shot my kids. Estimated time she had left the Plord's um home where they had visited that night, according to Heather Plord herself, 9 45 p.m. So there's about an hour in there. Um, detectives knew that the shooting them must have occurred at approximately 10.15 in order to give Diane enough time to regather her senses, survey the condition of her kids, and then drive, as she had claimed, immediately to Mackenzie Willamette Hospital to reach it about 10.48 p.m. But in the meantime, a witness had come forward explaining that he had seen what was sure Diane's, what he was sure was Diane's red Nissan near 10:20 p.m., moving very slowly, five to seven miles an hour along Old Mall Hawk Road. The car, the witness, Joseph Inman said, wasn't being driven critically. Like she was just moseying. Yes. Uh-huh. In fact, the little red car with Arizona plates was going so slow that Inman had passed it. This road was curvy with blind corners. I mean, it went along the river, think of all bar roads like that. And um, you know, it had blind corners. So passing was not something he usually did, but decided to chance it when his odometer was barely registering over zero miles per hour following behind her.

unknown 28:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Then, to much everyone's surprise, two months after the shooting, Diane agreed to come down to the police department to quote, clear the air. This interview would show exactly how incapable Diane was of thinking before she spoke, which we already knew. But was her lawyer with her? Of course not. Diane's like, I need to talk to someone. I'm so bored. It would become known as the hardball interview. The detectives let Diane think they were believing her over the wine of BS she was feeding them at first. And then, yeah. At the parlay, uh, Diane explained that she believed the killer was somebody she might have known. He had called her by her name. If true, this information would have made a great impact on the entire fucking case. But the two men gathered in the office with her. It was a clear charade, an attempt to delay the proceedings she felt moving against her and possibly even throw the investigators off her trail altogether. Insulted the investigators, turned the table and fell upon Diane fervivally with such an interrogation that she was left deceived instead of the deceiver for once. Like, get her. Yeah. Um, why was she telling this now? Like these officers were furious. She didn't know, she said. How did he know what road she was going to take home from Heather? She didn't know. Was he a friend from Oregon or Arizona? She didn't know. Um, what purpose would he have to kill her kids? She didn't know. Um, did she really rush to the hospital immediately after the kids were shot? Or did she pause a while and drive like a fucking turtle? She didn't know. Why didn't she stop the gunman when he began blasting away at the kids in the Nissan? She didn't know the answer to that either. Finally, Diane must have finally sensed, finally, after all this, that the tide of the interview was turning against her. Diane, girl, wake up. I think she just has a hard time believing anything negative about herself. Like she's just in her own weird little like bubble of racism. Uh-huh. It's it's bad. Yeah. Kurt Weist um was getting in Diane's face saying, What kind of fucking mother tells the police a false story at first and then says later she wasn't telling the truth because the guy knew her name and she was afraid for her life. Okay, Diane shouted. Since you guys seem to think that I should have brought the guy in with me, I will go get him myself and I'll bring him back because I know who did it. Diane almost added mockingly, like these guys stunned. The detective said, You know who did it. Yep, Diane said, You know his name. Yup, Diane said you saw him shoot your kid. Yep, she says, That's pretty fucking important information. They were reminded Diane. And Diane, at that, popped up, ready to flee the interrogation room. And I saw him grab my arm and yank out my arm and shoot my arm and then say, now trying to get away with it, bitch. And I'm leaving because I know who did it. Bye. Yeah. The stunned investigators watched Diane jog out of the police department. Girl, what? I have so many questions and no answers. Oh my god. Okay, first of all, this information didn't happen to occur to her at any point in time. No. Also, is it gonna be a Nick and Bacher? No. Oh, okay. I was gonna say that's one way to like burn his world down. Oh my god, yeah. I'm kind of surprised at this point when she realized that was all over. She wasn't like, it was him. Like, what a conniving bitch. I can see her doing that for sure. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I guess done investigators just watched Diane jog out of the police this spartway. And we're sitting bewildered in Doug Welch's office not long afterwards when the phone rang. It was Diane. She's like, I wasn't done talking. You guys just the vibe was off. I had to leave. Oh, I hate her. Um, she informed them at their um that their badgering had unlocked all of her memories. They were like, You she was like, you were so mean to me that I remembered everything. Leave me alone. Like, I know she remembered everything about that night now and exactly who did it, but she wasn't going to tell them because she didn't trust them. She was going to solve this case herself. Okay, Scooby-Doo. Yep. She did not. Instead, the rest of the summer ended with Diane becoming increasingly depressed and lonely. She, you know, the cops were like, okay, bye, Diane. And she just went along with her life. And the media was like, you're no longer interesting. I, yeah, I think it was dwindling a little bit. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, she's becoming depressed and lonely, and she started showing up at bars and dance halls to drink and flirt with men. The trouble was, Diane had been on TV across the country giving interviews to anyone who looked her way. So the bar scene did not work to cure her loneliness, and her loneliness increased until Diane had an idea to solve all of her problems to feel whole again. No, I have a feeling this is so bad. It's bad. Um, and when she saw a dishy, dark-haired, bearded man one day on her road, her mail route, unbeknownst to him, he was the missing piece that Diane needed to complete her plan. She flirted with the man who knew who she was. You had to be living under a rock to not know who Diane Sounds was. But he felt she was wholesome and definitely not capable of killing her kids. She was getting a bad rap. This is what this guy thought. And even thought, you know, she isn't guilty. He didn't want to date her publicly, but he would sleep with her. The magical boobs are at work again. Uh-huh. Pregnant Diane was pregnant by mid-October. Oh. What? She's a great case for eugenics. I'm just saying. Like, take that stuff out. Oh my god. She and she, this guy was like, she was really, you know, pursuing him. And he, as he said, he's like, I don't want to date her publicly, but I'll sleep with her. And one night she called, she's like, I just need someone to talk to. And he's like, okay, you can only come over if you can get a six-pack of this beer, this exact amount of marijuana. And then there was something else. And he's like, I knew she wasn't gonna get that stuff. It was like 10:30 on a Tuesday or something. Yeah, he's like, No, she was at my house with all that stuff in an hour. And she was there because she knew her cycle so well. She knew if she slept with someone that night, she'd get pregnant. And she did. Yeah. It's like a horror movie. Was it worth the beer? And that was good. What a wing. Right. Oh good. So Diane and the police lived in a short, short purgatory for the next month. So when Diane finally told the baby daddy that she had gotten pregnant on an evening that she had come over, and the first thing she had told him was that she was on birth control, he was furious and cut off all contact with her. So the night she came over, she's like, I'm on birth control. Like, we're good. Here's your beer and pot. The man moved with no forwarding address from Diane's mail route almost immediately. Why? Yeah. Um, police hit a dead end in November, but December and January saw some movement, and finally in February, ironically, nine months almost exactly after the shooting, the grand jury indicted Diane for one charge of murder, two charges of attempted murder, and two charges of criminal assault. Diane was finally arrested on February 28th, 1984. Like fully ass pregnant. She's, yeah, she's what, four months now? Four or five months? Yeah. Okay. Um, now that Diane was arrested, it all fell on Fred Hughie, the defense attorney, and Christy to make sure that Diane was convicted. Huge obviously had to make sure that they had an airtight case in order to get the conviction against Diane. And Christy had to remember what she saw that night and seal the deal. Um and there was still like that idea like, if it doesn't work out, we're gonna, we've arrested her, we'll go on without Christy. But she really was like the nail in Diane's coffin if she could remember and be able to say it out loud. So were they gonna make her like testify on the stand? Yeah. Oh, I don't love it. I know I hate that. So I don't know if that would happen in today's world. I think they try not to, yeah. Uh yeah. As much as possible. Yeah. So Diane was not bored in prison. Of course not. Her pastor visited often. She found it, she found Jesus in between going to the bars and getting pregnant on her mail route. Was she sleeping with her pastor? No, not that I heard, which is surprising to be honest. Yeah. Um, and she called her parents every other day and kept up on her correspondence, becoming fast friends with a pen pal who was also in jail, a serial killer who had been branded the I-15 killer, and Rule does have a book on him too. He hid his true identity from Diane as he wrote to her sexually explicit letters about how her pregnancy turned him on. Ew.

unknown 37:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Diane women are beautiful. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, but she just didn't. Look at the whole situation, right here. It's very important, yes. Um, Diane was charmed by the man. Will, of course she was, who wrote her graphic sexual letters, and she didn't bat an eye when she learned his true identity as the man who was famous for murdering women. He seems like a nice guy to me, was Diane's reaction. Finally, it was time to go to trial. Diane was sure it would all be over quickly, and her and her baby would flee to anywhere besides Oregon and start all over. Not gonna let you keep this. You're not getting out of jail, lady. Like no. Your dreams are not. You idiot. Yeah. Diane was hugely pregnant when it finally started, and she dressed her tiny frame with its swollen belly in very demure outfits each day. We're talking bows, Peter Pan collars, ruffles on maternity dresses, like gunny sex kind of situation. So she does look like not somebody who murdered people, especially her own kids. And these in the pictures from like the trial, you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, she sure as fuck did not look like a murderer. Um, but right away, the prosecution unfurls all of Diane's misdeeds and bad behavior. Surprisingly, so does her defense attorney. He's like, we're just gonna, he can't really hide all of Diane's bad choices and behavior, so he lets the jury know about them right from the jump, but reminds them just because a married or a woman is promiscuous and is obsessed with her married lover, that doesn't make her a murderer. Which is technically true. But it speaks to motive. Yeah. Definitely when you throw the married, yeah. Guy doesn't like kids. Yeah, he really does speak to motive. Yeah. Um, but as the trial goes on, more and more evidence is revealed that shows Diane just might be a murderer. Um, some of the testimony was dammy because it showed how inappropriate Diane's reactions were while in the hospital. Um, one doctor said that he told her that after he told her that Cheryl had died, that she, Diane, would need to stay in the hospital that night. Diane asked, Will I be able to go to work tomorrow? Last thing on your mind. I swear to God, it would be the last thing on your mind as a parent. Yeah. What in the world? I'd be like, I'm just gonna crawl into the small hole and be like, is do you guys euthanize people here? Because I don't want to go on. Like, yeah, put me in the same little freezer box as my kid. You know, my God, I can't even imagine. Oh, it makes me sick to my stomach. Um, another doctor told of how um when he informed Diane that the bullet had um missed little Danny's heart. Um, Diane replied, far out. Okay. I just you just want to like punch her in the mouth. Like I get that. She's really a fighting person, but I kind of want to find out yeah. I'm surprised nobody has thus far. Like she's always pregnant. You can't well, it's a really interesting like self-defense mechanism. I guess that's one way to do it. Uh then medical personnel switched to testifying about how the children were healing. When one doctor was questioned about Christy's possible having memory loss from her injuries, the doctor confirms that even with everything the little girl went through, she did not suffer memory loss, which is good to know because the next witness was Christy Ann Downs. Yeah. And forever. And yeah, baby Danny, too. I guess, yes. Um, so Danny goes to the same foster family after, and the foster family um has a daughter that's the same age as Christy, and these two are like fast friends. They are besties, they wear matching outfits all the time. Like so the foster family, the little girl's like, no, I will be in the court when Christy has to testify. Like, I'm gonna be there for her. And this little girl, her bestie, gets so upset, seeing Christy upset that she has to leave and stuff, so sad at the book. I'm like, Jesus crying, she's like real true. She's a real yeah, okay. Come on, I love you. Oh, gee. Um, so Fred Hughie, the DA who had come to love Diane's surviving children, is careful as he questions nine-year-old Christy. She's nine, sorry, at this time. He gently walks her through the questions they have prepared for her, starting with the easier ones and working up to the harder ones. By the time Fred Hughie asks Christy who shot her, the little girl is sobbing. But everyone could still clearly hear the little girl when she answers. My mom did. I would no longer call her my mom. I'd be like, that bitch in the ugly dress over there. Dying the pregnant one. You don't look good in that maternity dress. Before Christy leaves the stand, he asks her if music was playing on the car's cassette player as her mother shot her and her siblings. Christy softly answers, yes. Do you remember the name of the song? Yes. Oh my gosh. Christy answers again. I know. It was hungry like a wolf. The tape from Duran Duran. Isn't that awful? I just Diane, what the fuck? Oh my god, that's what this whole thing the series could be called is Diane, what the fuck? Oh my god. I just, oh yeah. Steve Downs makes an appearance. Of course he does. On the Witnesses. I'm an absent dad who allowed all of this bad shit to happen to my kids. And then defended her right after it happened. She was never, she might be terrible at a lot of things, but she never do terrible things to our children. Even though I personally witnessed it a million times.

unknown 43:22

Oh, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

So he tells of their 12 years together, from her manic behaviors to the time she tried to shoot him. About how he had reported his own car stolen before the murders when it was safely parked in his garage. And how Diane, after realizing he was not on her side after the shooting, he flipped a little bit, you know, called Chandler police and had him arrested on Grand Larson Avery. They're so toxic. Diane's like, are you not gonna back me up on murdering your kids? Guess who's going to jail too? Steve. What would Rebecca? He was getting insurance. He was committing insurance, fraud. Oh, okay. Sorry. No, that's okay. Not sorry. I probably rashed through that computer. So because they were like, have you been a jail suit? And he's like, yeah, I have. It's Diane's fault. It's just because I was committing fraud. These two. Oh my God. He talked about how they conspired together to burn down her mobile home for the insurance money and other plots that Diane had come with. It all was very sorted and it showed exactly the type of person Diane was and how she'd do whatever she had to do to get whatever she wanted. I'd love to see photos of her face while he's testifying. Like I just want to see. I bet she was I guess in the book, she's And Rule says that Steve gets up there and Diane's like, so she did have some reactions, but I'd love to see a picture for sure. Before the end of the trial, two very strange scenes play out. One on TV and one in the courtroom. The one on TV is when the TV on wheels is rolled in and a police video is played. It's showing a recording done of Diane and a detective recreating what she said happened that night on the side of the road with the shaggy-haired stranger. Has they he demanded her keys and then shot her children? Um, so this is a very old uh video, and I'll try and post it if I can find it. Um and it's just like her car, and she's like going through the motions. Um, she's giggling throughout the whole recreation, often repositioning the detective as she frequently changes her mind as to where exactly the mysterious stranger who shot her and her kids was standing. She's like, wait, no, wait, no, wait, no. Was she rubbing up against him the entire time? She wasn't, but she wasn't far from him either. She's grabbing his bicep. Move here. We're very strong. Not the time. Finally, on the tape, after Diane pretends to throw her keys, as she says she did on that night, she shows how she gets into the car but bumps her arm that is still in the sling on the video. She dramatically yelps and laughs as she says, Oh, that hurts worse than her words hang in the air. And on the video before she recovers and finishes, that hurts worse than the real thing. Detectives and people watching in court were sure that Diane was about to say, that hurts worse than when I shot myself. Like everyone is very convinced that's what she was going to say. Every documentary, the cops were like, I know what she was gonna say. I know where she was going with that. Uh-huh. Yeah. Um, yeah, this whole time, like this video of with her videoing it, and the guy, the one police officer is like standing in the front of the video, and he's like, It's dune, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this video is to Diane Downs to record. Diane's in the back, in the, you know, in her car. Is she ready? She totally is. This bitch is like, mmm. She's primping. Oh my god. She's primping to do the reenactment of her kid's murder, an attempted murder.

unknown 47:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

I would be a dissolved pile of human goos. Oh my. Just sobbing. The entire what the fuck? Oh my god. Oh, just the no.

unknown 47:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

It's one thing not to cry, people react differently. That's fine to be stoic and everything. But like her giggling and she's just loving the attention, like, red flag, red flag, red flag. So bad. Um, the final unbelievable incident came when a court clerk brought in a portable stereo, and Duran Duran's Hungry Like a Wolf is played in court. This is after Christy testified. She's not. All the heads in the gallery turn towards Diane, knowing this is a song playing when her children were allegedly shot. But Diane is not crying or looking sick as the music fills the courtroom.

unknown 48:02

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Diane is smiling. And then, in a truly unbelievable turn of events, she karaokes that shit, doesn't she? Pretty much. Diane starts to move her body to the music. Soon she's tapping her foot and snapping her fingers to the beat. As she mouths the words to the song. Audacity. I just not what in the world? Not even an ounce of self-preservation either. Not even just like they're doing this to trick me. And I just hook, line, and sinker. Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Yeah. I have to read it. Do we have a video of this? Uh there isn't. Uh-uh. They there they did do a made-for-tv movie. I was trying to watch it. Um, I can't find it though. Um, you know, it was like a straight to TV movie. It was like a lifetime movie. It's got Farah Fawcett in it, and she plays Diane. Yeah, I know. That was casting up. Yeah, but that was casting up. Yeah. Somebody was exaggerating a little bit. But she when she recreates it, I've seen clips from the movie, and I am like, oh God, it's so bad. Um, Anne Roll was in the courtroom when this happened, and her, she was just like, oh my God. I guess the courtroom, like you could have heard a pin drop. It was silent as the song ended, and Diana's still tapping her feet to the song after it's ended. That's all you could hear in there, I guess. I just a stunning. I can't stunning in the worst way. I can't. It's it's hard to wrap your head around, seriously. Yeah. Oh my god. Almost at the end of trial, Diane learns that the baby she's carrying belongs not to her, but to the state. Yay! Thank God. I mean, sorry that she had to, you know, yeah, sell those jeans, but right. Um, county courts have already ruled that the baby, as soon as the baby is born, it'll be taken from her. Prior to this learning this, um, Diane walked into court each day with a smile and confidence. Like she's at a birthday party every single fucking day. Like she was having the time of her life at this trial. She was loving the attention. She's wearing her cute little outfits. She had to wear like a band on her wrist. And I can't remember if it changed color every day or if it was red every day, but she would match her outfits to it. So it just looked like it was part of her outfit. Like she was having the time of her life. And then, yeah. Did she think that this was gonna go on forever and this was just through life? She just really was convinced, I think, that she was going to be exonerated. Yeah. No, it's it's a huge waiting game for the verdict. And to see if Diane is going to go into labor, but just like nine months pregnant at this point. Yeah. As the waiting drags on without a verdict, whispers from people waiting start to voice their fears of what will happen if Diane gets acquitted. Like, everyone's starting to freak out. Like, because the longer a jury takes, that usually means there's a whole deadlock. Yeah, it might be an acquittal. So she would regain cred, you know, will she regain custody of Christy and Danny? And with the baby she currently carries, she'll have three children again. So people are like, what the fuck is taking so long? And their minds are running wild, which don't blame them. Mine would be right there. And know how to have anxiety. Nerves begin to fray and worry grows when finally, after 36 hours, the verdict is finally in and Diane Downs is found guilty on all charges. Thank God. Were they just like, we we need at least one more extra, like I don't know. One shot. I don't know. Well, I don't know. I can't. Was there any like interviews with it? No, not that in the book that I was reading about it, or I don't remember seeing any in any of the documentaries, which is kind of crazy because you'd think they'd be a hot commodity. People would be like, What the fuck, man? What were you guys doing in there? Why? What was the holdup? What 36 hours? Did you not see her lip sync to Duran Duran? Seriously, were you not there for the same trial I was? Oh my god. So 10 days after she's found guilty, Diane delivered a baby girl. Diane named the girl Amy Elizabeth Downs, but she was quickly adopted by a loving and thrilled family who renamed her Rebecca. Um, she is um there is some 2020 uh documentaries. Uh, if I can find them, I'll link them in the show notes, where she gives a lot of interviews. Um, and she kind of she had it a little bit rough when she figured out. I mean, her parents didn't tell her, but some, I think maybe a babysitter or something told her when she was who her mom was. And then she read the book or saw the movie, and that's how she found out, and it really fucked with her. Like, I get it. I mean too. I'd be like, that is a contributing factor to my yes, and that's if she was like, Am I gonna turn out to be like her? Like, she had a struggle for a while there. Um, yeah, but she ended up writing to Diane, and Diane was Diane in a total cunt, and she was like, I regret reaching out to you. So she got off contact with her. She was like, Oh, never mind. So Diane's exactly like everyone described. Um, yeah. So two months after giving birth, Diane was sentenced. During sentencing, psychiatrists revealed that Diane had been diagnosed as narcissistic, histrionic, and antisocial. Histrionic means an overly dramatic, and anyone who has seen Diane's multiple meeting appearances or testimony on the stand would immediately recognize this trait in her. Antisocial means the chronic violation of the rights of others is seen. Like she they don't exist because they're not Diane. Yeah, uh exactly. And you see that a lot. So, um, and then narcissistic is just like um all of these episodes, if you've been paying attention, is pretty much how to describe them. Uh um, Diane was sentenced to 50 uh life plus 50 years. The judge said that he'd hope she'd never see the light of day again. How she's in Oregon or California? She's in California right now. Okay, yeah, so she's at this point they're not doing death penalty. No, okay, yeah. Unfortunately, Diane did see the light of day again. No, when she escaped from fucking jail, Diane escaped from jail. Was it a Farah Foss pop poster? Spoon. Sorry, that's not funny, but it is kind of funny. It wasn't, but on the morning of Saturday, July 11th, 1987, Diane scaled the 12 to 15 foot chain link fence surrounding the women's prison while guards weren't lucky, used clothing to protect herself from the barbed wire on top, and jumped down to freedom on the other side. For 10 days, Diane's managed to evade law enforcement desite a 14-state manhunt when she was recaptured only a few blocks from the jail. Shacked up with her cellmate's old man. Of course she was. I hope they put her right back in the same cell with that person. At least for like one day or see what happens. The cameras are off. Yeah, I didn't say that, but the cameras are off. Do we even? Wayne Cypher, who is married to Diane's cellmate, said he was high nearly all the time. And when Diane escaped and showed up on his doorstep, she didn't say who she was, just that she asked if she could stay. He said yes and went down for a heroin nap. He said that Diane's eventually introduced herself a couple hours later, not as Diane Downs, but just as a girl with no clothes on, and that they had a sexual relationship while she was hiding out there. Again, of course they did. While Diane was on the lamb, Fred Hughie, the DA who had put her away and adopted Diane's surviving children. Oh, you love that. Oh, I'm obsessed with Fred Hughie. Everyone's like, conflict of interest. And I was like, it was like three years after she was convicted. How is it also not a conflict of interest? I'm so sorry. Yeah. Like no, um, why don't we look at Diane? She that was a yeah, yeah. The those babies deserve to be in the safest of comfiest homes. Yes. And who is more safe than the guy who busted his ass to make sure you're attempted murderer, yeah. Terrible genetic contributor was in jail. Yeah. And then who could make that into a bad story? I'm not sure. And I love that. Yeah, love that. So Hugi for president. Yes. Fred Hue forever. Yes. Um, he was pretty fucking frantic though when he got hurt the nose. He was freaking out. He was sure that Diane was on her way to come and try to take her kids back and possibly finish what she started. Like that would be my first thought. Yeah, uh-huh. Likewise, Chris and Jackie Babcock, who adopted Diane's trial baby, sorry, so I don't know what to call her, her trial baby, were frantic with the news that Diane had escaped and were upset, and they had to reveal Becky's um who Becky's biological mother was to their family and her caretakers, something they never planned on doing. But they were like, we had to take her to daycare. And what if she's gonna turn to take this kid? So we had to fill them in. So they were like, that's not what we wanted to do. Yeah. Um would have absolutely absconded the country with children. Vacation time. Yeah. Hey, we've never been to Antarctica. Yeah. Seriously. Farthest from anywhere possible ever. We don't think Diane has the funds to get here. Yeah. But as terrifying as I imagine that was for everyone involved, they need to worry because Diane was just having a sex vacation with her heroin-addicted cellmate's husband. She was arrested wearing his shirt and boxers. How did they notice? I don't oh, it was actually really interesting how they caught her in her jail cell. I think she had gotten, I think her cellmate knew she was going to escape, and she was like, you can hide out with my old man. Not think she'd she'd like fuck the guy. And so she drew her a map. Well, um, in so this notebook in their cell, one of the um police officers just put a different piece of paper over that. Oh, did the and saw the map. Oh my gosh. And they figured it out from there. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Thank God. I don't know. These guys are a wild story. The Diane Down story is like so oh aggravating, but you're like, there's so many crazy things in it. So thankfully, after being recaptured, Diane remains in jail to this day. All of her motions for parole have been denied, including one just a couple months ago in December 2025. So I'd a parole board representative wrote in the denial that Downs has a mental or emotional disturbance, deficiency condition, or disorder predispositioning her to the commission of any crime to a degree rendering her a danger to the health and safety of others. Therefore, the condition which made her dangerous is not in remission, and she does not continue to um, and she does remember remain a danger to people on the outside. So they were like, she'll kill again. Yeah, uh that's a nice way of saying she gonna kill somebody. She's gonna like crime her way throughout the rest of her crimes. Yeah. So um, in other words, yeah, nothing has changed. Downs' mental state since murdering her children and attempting to murder the other two. Um, throughout decades in prison, Diane's uh Downs has never admitted to her crimes or shown any remorse. She's like, I didn't do it. What do you mean? I didn't do it, like, because well, she can't. Like, it's like that. I don't know if it's pathological or compulsive, whatever that word is. Yeah, that you can't help it, just lie like that. Yeah all the way through. And girl, oof. So psychological evaluations have noted her lack of introspection and her consistent blaming of others, her lawyer, the police, the prosecution for a conviction. Also, after reviewing interviews and court testimony, forensic psychiatrist Barbara Ziv labeled Downs a deviant sociopath who lacks emotional connection. No. She has emotions, they're all just about herself. Yeah, yeah. She has a lot just for herself, self-care. Treat yourself. Took that way too literally, Diane did. Uh a parole board representative wrote in the denial that Downs has a oh, oh wait, no, this is a front, sorry. A parole board representative wrote in the denial that Downs has a mental emotional disturbance deficiency. Uh, like kind of as I said. Um and she like they're not, she's not ever getting this last one. They were like, she's not ever getting out. You can stop now. Yeah, just rubber stamp a no for every request that comes out. Yes, we'll do this again. But they're like, you can stop calling here. Yeah. Um, her case is considered a typical child killer by FBI profilers and criminal justice experts, which is probably why, I mean, it's a very interesting story, but just her herself, because primarily because of the calculated nature of her crimes, her lack of remorse, and her specific personality disorders, Diane's is not motivated by a lot of these, you know, the moms that kill their children. Um, you know, she didn't want to end her child's suffering or supposed suffering, um, such as with Andrea Yates. Um, but rather by a combination of narcissism and a desire to be with a man who didn't want children. So she's a little bit different than the normal ones. And I think that's a lot of people are like just blown away. So did they do a bunch of like psych uh psychological studies on her? Like I think, I think a lot of people have reviewed her case, um, but her brain should maybe be looked to some good. Yeah. She should do it while she's alive. I mean, she she put a gun directly to her baby's back and shot him. So I can't I just the whole it's awful. I know. Oh my god. And that is the story of the absolute piece of shit, Diane Downs. We did it. We did it. Listen, okay, so I don't I'm gonna have to go watch a million things now. You might want to, yeah. They're very interesting. I would suggest the 2020 documentaries. Um, I have the book Small Sacrifices if you want it. I do. So, okay, yeah. I need to become friends with Anne. Uh she sounds like a real one. Uh Anne Rule is crazy. She um in the 2020 were Becky Babcock, uh trial baby, sorry. Uh feel bad calling her that. I don't want to call her. Um, but she meets Anne Rule, who had, you know, worked with Diane to do this book. Well, she tried and Diane lied, and then Anne Rule would check everything out and be like, well, this is really what happened. And I think Diane wrote a book that was like, here's everything Diane did wrong, or Anne Rule did wrong in her book and stuff. Like Diane wrote her own book that was like a response to the book that was written. She was like, here's what really happened. That was fucking shaggy or stranger. So um, but in the 2020, Anne Rule's like, sorry, I actually know who your biological dad is, but I promised your murdering mother I wouldn't tell. Or maybe she had promised the biological dad, because I think Anne Rule had interviewed him for the book and she wouldn't tell Becky. And I'm like, that's kind of fucking mean. Maybe don't tell her that you know. Yeah, I was like, Anne Rule. So I love Anne Rule. It's hard. I know, yeah. I mean, she was from a different time, though. It is funny in all of Anne Rule's books, she always describes every woman's like body, like she was she was she's very slender and pretty. And I'm like, you know, we don't need to know that. Like that's not nobody gives away. I mean, okay, so there is a little bit in this where it's like, okay, uh, she is using her uh objectively good looks. Um, I don't find her good looking, but like she uses that to like perpetuate all of her crimes. Yeah. Uh but overall that kind of stuff, but she always does it in her books. I think Anne Rule is just from a very different time. Yeah. Where that seemed to be something that was important. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, nobody, yeah, you don't need to describe women, you know, and stuff. So it's just it's I still love Anne Rule, but there is some things I'm like, yeah, okay. Some things don't age well, right? Yeah, I guess hello to all of the soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Now I'm not a political mama, but I am a mama of a service member. And I just want to say we are all so proud of you back here. Yes. And we love you, and we hope you are safe. It doesn't matter what your political affliction is. You guys are baddies. Okay. We love you so much. So much. Feel better to everyone who's sick right now. Oh my god, everyone get better. We're getting our asses kicked in Montana right now. The weather has been insane. Everyone is dying sick. But there was like 30 car pilots I think yesterday interstate yesterday. It was we're from Montana. We don't do stuff like that a lot. Yeah, we're like we just got snow didn't exist. I know we canceled school for wind. Really? That's like 80 miles an hour. Well, I don't know if all schools, but I knew that there were a few. Really? Good for them. I'm glad they're doing that. So, yeah. Thank you again for joining us. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. So much fun. I love it. Um, and thank you so much for listening to Storyteller. Tell your friends and join us on Instagram at storyteller.pod, uh, TikTok at StorytellerPod. Facebook at Storyteller Podcast. And be sure to like, follow, comment, and download the podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you'd like to support your show, we now have a Patreon where we have different tiers, a membership with lots of fun, exciting extras that we'll be figuring out because I'm still learning how to use it. I was just gonna say, I need to like sign out. How do I do this? You go to um patreon.com slash storyteller pod and some other exciting news. We're going to be able to offer subscriptions through Spotify soon. We're thinking of some, you know, bonus episodes and maybe poll listeners to see what y'all want to, you know, hear and all that stuff. And we might be doing some ghost hunts and recording those. Oh my gosh. Um, who knows? But um, I'm excited to get to work on that. But I need our girl Teresa to be alive so I can get her of the thoughts and prayers. Scheduled due for so many stuff. So I'm just waiting for everyone to be healthy again. But, anyways, yeah, keep your eyes peeled or join us on Patreon. Any donations um will get you exclusive access to bonus episodes and other fun extras, and it all goes directly back into the show. As always, thank you for listening to our story. Bye. Bye. I always want to go full like Paul Harvey at the end and sign off with like, and now you know the rest of the story. I figured most people didn't grow up like listening to Paul Harvey with their girlfriends. He was on the air. I checked, he was on the air until like 2008. He was, I remember. I do. I could okay, that's good. Because I've always let you know. And now you know the rest of the story. It's very dramatic. Like, very like what's that who's the spot guy? No, not spot guy. Captain Oh Kirk. Yeah. Wait a dramatic. Pause. Oh my god.